My buddy said...
"whether it's easy or not to have a "binary" view or opinion on this issue, is irrelevent. it's easy to steal if all you hang out with is thieves. the bible is clear about homosexuality. so why should we as christians separate ourselves from the laws that govern the society that we are a part of? I don't think that God could have sent a more definate message than he did with sodom and gomorrah. God sent Lot, the only righteous man in either city, away from there, and then God himself destroyed the two cities. why? because they had submersed themselves in their homosexual lust.
how much further shall we lead ourselves in this similar direction for the sake of "equal rights", before God becomes so disgusted with us that he finally sends down fire and brimstone?
if someone tries to steal from someone else, we take a stand against that dont we?
if someone commits murder, if someone lies in court, if someone attempts to have multiple husbands/wives, we take a stand against that because we know it to be wrong. God's love for any of those people is as strong as it is for you or me, and it is also our calling to show to those people God's love. but in the same way we are called to stand for what it right, and so we do not support these things; these sinful acts. we fight against them.
we are not spreading God's love by supporting and encouraging homosexuality. we are furthering satan's deception. and in doing so, we point non-believers in the opposite direction of christ.
this is not their world.
this is God's world.
so what are we doing to bring God's kingdom to earth?
He clearly does not condone this behavior. so how is He glorified through our support of it?"
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My Response:
Well, I've prayed long and hard about it and I'm glad that we are friends and can have these conversations. And even more than that, I am glad that you have the balls to counter it. However, I don't believe that God has put the people in my life that He has so that I could see how sinful they were but rather so that I can see how their "sin" is no different than the sins that I commit everyday. Should I be denied rights because I fall short of the Glory of God? Is that justification enough?
Having a binary view on this is the point. Ask a gay person if they chose to be gay. Friend, trust me, if you really, really knew a gay person, you would have a completely different perspective.
God has given us the freedom of choice. He doesn't force himself upon us, so how can we justify forcing Him on other people?
When it comes to public policy, the question we must ask ourselves is whether our religious convictions should determine the rights (under the law) and privileges of those who do not hold our same beliefs. I think that Justice and equality under the law trumps our desire to force our religious values on others because values can not be forced on people through laws and God is the only one who can change hearts. In fact, we are not spreading God's love by perpetuating and encouraging the marginalization of groups who do not adhere to our values, we are not loving our brothers as ourselves.
It is our call to show God's love...but it is impossible to tell people that we love them if we deny them the basic rights that we enjoy.
Don't you remember from history class, "No taxation without representation"? If gay and lesbian people pay taxes (which they do), then they should be granted the same rights. Some of the rights that they are currently denied are:
-Partners being denied Social Security benefits.
-Denial of the privilege to file joint tax returns.
-Denial of food stamps and low-cost housing for gay couples who are poor.
-The refusal of car insurance companies in some states to cover same-sex couples.
-The ability of the court to set aside a homosexual's will so that his or her partner can not receive the intended inheritance.
-Etc. Etc. Etc...
If you want comprehensive run down of all 1,049 benefits, rights, and privileges contingent on marital status you can go to this link: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04353r.pdf
To say that same sex couples who want to be married are submersing themselves in their lust is a long shot. These people are seeking to make a commitment to be faithful to one another. If anything they are strengthening marriage. It is well known that the divorce rate in American is almost 50%....heterosexuals are the ones getting divorced and weakening the nuclear family. Gay people want to get married!
Yes if people commit crimes, we stand against that however we stand against it in a way that is just. "Those" people Friend, are us. Sin is sin as far as God is concerned, none of us are more righteous than the other. We cannot fight against other's sins if we cannot fight against our own. The ten commandments didn't make us sin any less, hence the necessity of the New Testament. It is not that the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ has caused us to be sinless but rather it has allowed us to be reconciled with God in spite of our sins.
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5 comments:
hey amy,
first i want to say that i havent seen you in years and i miss you.
second. there's a few points i want to counter.
a. yes, i am a "comfort zone" kind of person, so i do tend to have fewer but stronger relationships. but i have had people throughout my life that have been close to me that have struggled with homosexuality. so dont assume that i have an entirely ignorant view. i may lean towards conservatism (strongly lean maybe) but i am still a compassionate person. i think you know that about me.
b. yes sin is sin. yours, mine, it doesn't matter. the difference amy, is that what the gay community is trying to do is tell God and the rest of us that homosexuality is normal and right and not sin. so what are we supposed to do then?
the state should recognize something that God created, in the manner and intention that God created it with.
i mean, why are we gonna stop it at homosexuals? why should we deny people who want to have MANY spouses this basic human right as they are calling it?
because what they have done is taken the gift of marriage, from God, and have skewed and turned it into something that dishonors him.
marriage is not a basic human right. it is a gift from God. to a man and a woman. God does not recognize a "marriage" between two men or two women. how can we then?
God has the power and the will to deliver people from homosexual desires/tendencies. we've both seen it happen.
a. i do know that you have a compassionate heart but i also believe that you compulsion to "conservative" views limits your ability to see the bigger picture. But I know you have a good heart and I don't think less of you for your views. "A man of wisdom avoids all extremes."
b. I asked this same question once of one of our mutual Mentors and he said that sometimes we have to go blindly in love. Other than that I don't know what to tell you.
Theocratic states have not faired well in the past. Again I can not stress the fact that God gives us the freedom of choice. He doesn't force himself upon us, so how can we force him on others.
Additionally, yes in the eyes of God marriage is a gift, however in law, marriage is a civil endeavor and a basic human right where people are afforded and denied specific rights and protections based on marital status.
In the netherlands, both heterosexual and homosexual unions are called "civil unions" and if couples want to have their union blessed in church and called a marriage that is their and their church's choice to do so. I agree with that perspective. That way people can get the same rights under the law and those who believe that marriage is solely a spiritual endeavor will have only unions blessed by the church called marriages.
"God has the power and the will to deliver people from homosexual desires/tendencies. we've both seen it happen." Although I agree with this, I don't believe that laws are the answer. Only God can change hearts and our best chance is to show people the love of God and leave God to do the judging.
It's hard to argue that homosexuality is natural. Human physiology proves that our bodies were not designed to have homosexual relationships. I would think that we can agree that it's completely physically unnatural. But, I don't want to speak too soon.
Moral opinions aside, homosexuality is dangerous to physical health. Here are just a few medical conditions that are results of homosexuality: Anal cancer, Chlamydia, cryptosporidium (causes diarrhea from parasites in your system), herpes, HIV, HPV, gonorrhea, Hepatitis B & C, and Syphillus. The risk of transmitting these diseases is much higher for homosexuals than for those who are heterosexual- some risks are up to 3-4 times more likely. Besides that, the life expectancy of homosexuals in comparison to heterosexuals is 20 years less.
You could argue that along with the right to social security benefits, joint tax returns, and low income housing, homosexuals would also be given the right to lessen their life span and contract diseases. The law does not take away the right for homosexuals to have sexual relationships. But, by allowing homosexuals the right to marriage, the law would be encouraging acts that are extremely harmful to the body. I believe that the law is intact to protect and keep order amongst its people, not promote dangerous activities.
Is the risk of transmitting these diseases higher for homosexuals as a whole or just homosexual males? Anyone who has intercourse through anal penetration is at a higher risk for transmitting these diseases that includes heterosexual couples.
If you could provide me with the sources in which you got your medical information it would be much obliged.
Additionally, wouldn't homosexuals valuing marriage have a lower risk of transmitting stds? Usually marriage reduces the number of sexual partners a person has.
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